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Ditto - The ultimate revenge killer of 5th gen????

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KoolAid

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With the addition of Ditto's new ability eccentric ditto can now copy an opposing pokemon without wasting a turn to transform. This is a massive change for ditto as it essecially means that ditto is effectively any pokemon on your opponents team at any time with ditto's HP.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/transform

Assuming the transformation is still the same as transform this would also mean that ditto could come in to a stat boosted poke and copy it leaving it to a speed tie to determine who goes first unless you added a choice scarf or the like to the ditto.

Therefore, ditto can theoretically effectively outspeed every pokemon in the game not holding a scarf with a choice scarf on turn 1


Discuss this change!



Mind freaking blown guys.


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NeonNick

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the new ditto seems simply devastating

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Mind.Blown..


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Paradox

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I wouldn't say it would be a Revenge Killer unless the Pokemon that Ditto is copying is a revenge killer that can effectively revenge kill the same specie as itself. I mean, if Ditto transforms into Suicune, then Ditto needs a move that Suicune knows that is super effective against Suicunes, like Hidden Power Electric/Grass. In my view, Ditto will now be a better lead, copying the opponent's everything (except item) and knowing its moves, which can turn the tide of a battle. Also, free Stealth Rocks if the opponent has Stealth Rocks.


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Clover

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What the heck. I'd totally consider using Ditto now XDDD I've always like........it.

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5P33D5

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That is a very good point you brought up though there is still one flaw with ditto... it always copies the same moveset with less PP... now this moveset may not have good moves against the opponent..

but none the less it'll be used more


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Razor

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Sheesh Looks Like My Lil Ditto Buddy Is Very Powerful Now!


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KoolAid

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@Paradox wrote:I wouldn't say it would be a Revenge Killer unless the Pokemon that Ditto is copying is a revenge killer that can effectively revenge kill the same specie as itself. I mean, if Ditto transforms into Suicune, then Ditto needs a move that Suicune knows that is super effective against Suicunes, like Hidden Power Electric/Grass. In my view, Ditto will now be a better lead, copying the opponent's everything (except item) and knowing its moves, which can turn the tide of a battle. Also, free Stealth Rocks if the opponent has Stealth Rocks.

Water absorb Crocune is beat by ditto, as it only has surf. Also, assuming the transformation is the same is transform, ditto copies boosts. So its an insane SD lucario counter, or an amazing counter for basically anything carrying a move that is super effective against itself, which is the majority of the current OU. Not to mention salamence is ruined by it, it shows which set it's running AND kills with dragon claw/outrage. Ditto can virtually have two scarfs, or a scarf and a band/specs should it come in on a choice pokemon.


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Paradox

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@KoolAid wrote:Water absorb Crocune is beat by ditto, as it only has surf.

Yeah, it "beats" it, but Crocune will just beat Ditto back with Roar. I think the slower Pokemon get Roar in first, so Crocune will beat Ditto by just roaring it while Spikes and/or Stealth Rocks is up when your Ditto has Choice Scarf.

EDIT: Also, not many people are going to have Water Absorb on Suicune. It's practically pointless when you look at its 115 base Defense and Sp. Defense. Plus, when it runs a Calm Mind set, Pokemon are either going to survive because of resistance or immunity to Water OR the Pokemon are going to faint. Also, Pressure is much better since it means 8 PP moves, like Dynamic Punch, are going to be used 4 times instead of 8.

Also, assuming the transformation is the same is transform, ditto copies boosts.

Just tested this and this statement is false. It does not copy stat boosts, including Choiced boosts. The only thing is Ditto is faster than them now because of the choiced item.

So its an insane SD lucario counter, or an amazing counter for basically anything carrying a move that is super effective against itself, which is the majority of the current OU.

Majority? Sorry, only about 22/48 have moves effective against itself in OU tier without Hidden Power or Weather Ball in Sunny/Rainy weather in effect.

Not to mention salamence is ruined by it, it shows which set it's running AND kills with dragon claw/outrage. Ditto can virtually have two scarfs, or a scarf and a band/specs should it come in on a choice pokemon.

Since I proved the boosts false, it depends on what set the Salamence has, the ability of Salamence, and how much boosts Salamence has in Speed. If Salamence has Dragon Dance with Overconfidence ability, then it's only a matter of luck via speed tie if Ditto comes in on Salamence to beat it if the Salamence has used Dragon Dance. If the Salamence user has a Band/Specs and a Ditto walked in and auto-transformed into Salamence, then the player will know what the other player's Pokemon has since it's just the same, so they will switch to a counter while you're locked in a move or switching as well.

All in all, it depends on what the Pokemon that Ditto is transforming to in order for it to prove effectively. It does allow you to see the opponent's Pokemon's set, but I can see it used more often.

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KoolAid

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well, that makes me rather sad that it doesnt copy boosts.
Sad


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Jojo-Kunn

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Ditto.. Is so much more awsome than it was before now. I love it more too. o3o


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Paradox

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@KoolAid wrote:well, that makes me rather sad that it doesnt copy boosts.
Sad

Ditto.

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Jojo-Kunn

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I see what you did thar.


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NeonNick

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What jojo said Very Happy

nesan

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I was helping test Beta Pokémon Online for fifth generation. It's funny how this happened. +3 Dragon Dance Kingdra. I brought in Ditto which was Jolly natured. I don't know if the Kingdra was Adamant natured or Jolly. I out sped / won the speed tie. Destroyed my opponent's rest of the team. It's pretty amazing. Going to be a huge thread in the Metagame. I wonder if it'll be Uber. lol That'd be funny.

Paradox

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@nesan wrote:I was helping test Beta Pokémon Online for fifth generation. It's funny how this happened. +3 Dragon Dance Kingdra. I brought in Ditto which was Jolly natured. I don't know if the Kingdra was Adamant natured or Jolly. I out sped / won the speed tie. Destroyed my opponent's rest of the team. It's pretty amazing. Going to be a huge thread in the Metagame. I wonder if it'll be Uber. lol That'd be funny.

If Ditto did outspeed a +3 speed Kingdra, maybe it will capture the enemy boosts in this upcoming generation. Also, I'm not sure whether nature will be copied or not since you're copying the same stats, so maybe the nature benefit won't effect it.

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nesan

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"Transforms into the target, copying its stats (except HP), moves (at 5 PP each), type, weight, and ability. The stats are copied exactly, without regard to EVs, IVs, and level. IVs of the target are copied for purposes of Hidden Power, as well. Transform copies the target's species, which means that DeapSeaScale, DeepSeaTooth, Light Ball, Metal Powder, Quick Powder, Soul Dew, and Thick Club activate only if the target is the correct species. Level is not copied, so a low level Pokemon does less damage than a high level Pokemon when using the same move (because the attacker's level is part of the damage formula).

Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs keep their boost upon Transforming. The Transforming Pokemon is allowed to select a new move.

If a Pokemon Transforms into Giratina-O, it will instantly revert to the altered forme of Giratina, as it is not holding the Griseous Orb item."



That's what Transform does. I'm sure it's new ability has the same effect.


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Paradox

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What I mean is that maybe it'll have something different in its effect. I tested a Ditto transforming into a +4 Dragon Dance Dragonite, but Ditto never had the +4 Atk and Spd like the other Dragonite had, just Dragonite's regular stats at +/-0.


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Jpegurl-chan

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I now know what pokemon to train the most in Black/White! THX, KoolAid!

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KoolAid

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Yohoho and I love ditto.
I realize this is super old but Razz

I proved y'all wrong about ditto


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Paradox

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@KoolAid wrote:I proved y'all wrong about ditto

Yeah, I was wrong about what I said before. Sorry about that, you were right. Razz


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KoolAid

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jpegurl wrote:I now know what pokemon to train the most in Black/White! THX, KoolAid!
the troll thing about it is that you dont have to train it.

it copies all the stats, so it's own don't matter


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Rachel Alucard

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Oh lord. Screw EV Training, I'll fill my team with level 1 Dittos. But then again what will happen if I'm fighting another person using Dittos, now that they are more powerful? o~o


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o~o''


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KoolAid

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@Rachel Alucard wrote:Oh lord. Screw EV Training, I'll fill my team with level 1 Dittos. But then again what will happen if I'm fighting another person using Dittos, now that they are more powerful? o~o
if you fight another ditto, you both stay a ditto.

Also, substitute blocks ditto's transform


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